Have you heard the starfish story?

Comments

1. Charlie Mas says:
   January 31, 2012 at 4:56 pm

   Here’s a more accurate metaphor:

   The girl was tossing starfish randomly. About one out of six of them went into the water and were better off. Two out of six were actually tossed further away from the tide. Half of them were tossed to another place on the beach no better than the one they were in.

   • Kelly Munn says:
     January 31, 2012 at 5:33 pm

     But, that was tossed by one girl called the Credo Study. There are other little girls from other studies who are also picking up starfish. And those little girls/studies are doing much better, particularly if those starfish were of color or live in poverty.

     • Charlie Mas says:
       February 1, 2012 at 6:26 am

       The CREDO study wasn’t moving the starfish, it was observing and reporting the results of the little girl’s actions. And her actions are pretty random.
   • Dylan Dentremont says:
     February 1, 2012 at 11:53 am

     While the CREDO study did not show universal gains in academic outcomes (which I don’t think anyone expected, even if they hoped) it does bring up some very good points about the different effects of charters. Even though the study may be methodologically imperfect (http://www.educationvoters.org/2012/01/20/the-center-for-education-reform-fact-checking-charter-school-achievement/) I think it also contains some gems that sometimes get overlooked.

     - English language learners and children in poverty realize “significantly better learning gains in charter schools.” I think this is an important point because a lot of our issues regarding equal access to education have a lot to do with income levels. If charters can help reverse their academic outcomes, I think we should be listening.

     - Not all charter policies are created equal. Some states (Arkansas, Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, and Missouri) have “significantly higher learning gains for charter school students than would have occurred in traditional schools.” Policy makes a difference. The presence of caps, the allowance of multiple authorizers, and appeals processes for ailing schools all have an effect on how effective charters can be.

     - Students do better in charter schools over time. The CREDO study is not the first study to reveal this effect. The study also admits that the MAJORITY of the students in the analysis are first-year charter students and that this does have a negative impact on the overall distribution of educational gains for the pooled population.

     There is an important facet of the charter form of governance, an agreement: “Accountability in exchange for flexibility.” Some make the argument that there is nothing a charter can do that a traditional public school cannot, and that may be technically true. However, the lack of flexibility in MOST traditional governance systems, regardless the source (administration, board, superintendent, union) hamstrings their ability to adapt to students in certain demographic categories. Charter schools who have the flexibility to serve these students (particularly ELL and impoverished students) have managed to SIGNIFICANTLY improve the outcomes of those students compared to traditional schools. This flexibility does need to be coupled with accountability, and that comes from good state oversight, policy, and transparency.

     I guess what I’m getting at is that if you read the CREDO report and the only thing you get out of it is one number, you are severely selling yourself short. The study has some shortcomings, but it also has some very important lessons about the best methods for charter school governance and policy. Not only that, it points us to the successes in the charter system that can help us improve traditional public schools as well.

     Sorry about the long post and thanks for sticking with it!

     • Charlie Mas says:
       February 1, 2012 at 6:07 pm

       Thank you for your participation, Mr. Dentremont. It’s a great pleasure to have this kind of positive engagement.

       Can we identify what exactly it is that charter schools do that makes them more successful with English Language Learners and children in poverty? It would be tempting to discount the better outcomes by attributing them to a higher level of family involvement – at least enough to seek enrollment at a charter school – rather than anything different at the school, but I won’t presume that. Instead, I will presume that there is a school-based source for this success. What is it? After we determine the different thing that the successful charter schools do, can’t we then work to have our public schools adopt the practice? First things first, however. What are the practices?

       Once those practices are known and described, then we can go to the state, district, or school level administrators who have prohibited the implementation of these practices and demand flexibility. School districts are the most local political entities we have. If the community cannot get responsive representation at the local school district level then there is no hope for our democracy. Is that the LEV’s position? That our elected school boards refuse to allow the practices that have been demonstrated effective? Wow! Vote those losers out of office immediately. Are the district superintendents the obstacle to higher student performance? Let’s work to get them replaced! But I don’t hear that from LEV. In fact, I saw the LEV support the incumbents in the Seattle School Board elections and I saw the LEV support the Seattle superintendents who have advocated for greater central control and standardization. It’s very confusing to see this organization support the people who promote and implement policies that this organization opposes.

       What are the charter policies that make a difference? What is it about the governance policies in the states that Mr. Dentremont cited that makes them more effective? Along those lines, there is a belief that charter schools are more accountable than regular public schools. I often hear the claim that charter schools that don’t out-perform some benchmark will be closed. Who would hold them accountable and close them here in Washington if this bill becomes law? We already have a law on the books, called No Child Left Behind, that was supposed to bring that kind of accountability to our public schools. Persistently under-performing schools, those in Step 5 of sanctions under NCLB, are supposed to be closed or transformed. There are a number of these schools that I know of, but I have yet to see any of them closed or transformed. Many have been in step 5 for years with no notable effort at transformation and no talk of closure. Would the same state officials who are failing to enforce NCLB be the ones who would be entrusted with closing the charter schools if they didn’t meet their benchmarks? Why would we expect state officials to do this job in the future if they have never done this job in the past? Why would we ever expect “good state oversight, policy, and transparency” here in Washington? And isn’t the real problem here the failure of state officials to do their duty and hold public schools accountable? What efforts have been made to compel them to follow the law?

       Altogether, the whole charter school effort seems a distraction from our real problems with the failure of our local school districts to implement the practices needed to improve student outcomes and the failure of our state education bureaucrats to fulfill the laws that demand accountability. I would rather fix the problems with our school governance than create some patch around them. It would be helpful if the LEV would join in this work.

       • Dylan Dentremont says:
         February 2, 2012 at 3:50 pm

         Sir!

         I wish I had all the answers, but, like you, I really do have more questions than answers about the best way(s) to improve the public education system for all stakeholders. I’ll try to address some things here, though.

         Can we identify what it is that leads to better outcomes for these students? I think so. But it will require more research, open minds, and constructive debate (like what we have here). I’ll get back to this later.

         You have concerns about lack of enforcement and accountability under the current system and I could not agree more. We have systems in place at the school, district, state, and even federal level that make accountability hard. People and organizations who can, surround themselves with barriers, making it difficult to enforce the accountability that we should expect as taxpayers.

         The best way to combat this is through active, engaged, knowledgeable (insert emphasis there) taxpayers and stakeholders. My post above is to help everyone be properly informed about all aspects of the debate around education reform (in this case, yes, charters). It makes my head hurt when I see people (you and I have both seen them) who make snap decisions on an issue without anywhere near enough or accurate information. Nobody here wants that (I hope). Some folks have been throwing around data from a particular study and it’s pretty clear to me that they did not read the whole report. They regurgitate (often incorrectly) one piece of data that supports their view and close their minds to the rest of the data. This is not good for anyone and it also does not make for constructive debate or good policy.

         While I agree with you that we all need to hold our bureaucrats, administrators, and public servants accountable, I don’t feel like charters are a distraction. Back to your first question, can we identify what it is that leads to better outcomes for these students? I think there are important lessons we can learn from charter systems, private school systems, home schooling, innovation schools, entrepreneurial teachers, and district administrators who think outside the box. I think it would be a huge mistake for us to disregard lessons we can glean from any of those sources and I hope that everyone takes care to be as informed as possible in this important policy debate.

         Thanks for your post and your involvement.
2. Ivan Weiss says:
   February 1, 2012 at 7:04 am

   Looks like your charter bill didn’t clear committee before cutoff in either the House or the Senate, Kelly. So now that is is dead once again, how about we work together for solutions to these problems that do NOT involve handing our public schools over to private corporations?

   If we put astronauts on the moon, we can do this. In the meantime, can you please stop characterizing opponents of charter schools as “defenders of the status quo?” Nobody is satisfied with the status quo. But most of us want to move in another direction than you do.

   I watched the entire hearing in the House Education Committee. From start to finish, I listened to every word of public testimony. Here is what struck me the most. At no time has message of charter school advocates changed — not one one iota — from the arguments made for charters in 1996, 200, and 2004, when the voters rejected them all three times.

   Same arguments, same results. What about YOU try something different, and quit clinging to YOUR status quo?
3. Brooke Valentine says:
   February 1, 2012 at 10:37 am

   Thanks Kelly! I love this video and think that the message it sends is so important!!! We have been able to watch and learn so much over the years as other states have tested the Public Charter school waters-and now we in Washington can learn from and build on the Success that other States have had with them. Thank you for keeping the focus on doing what is best for ALL students!!!!
4. Donna S. says:
   February 2, 2012 at 8:50 am

   Then you have people who watch the little girl, tell her she’s wrong, then blog about it, comment on other blogs about it, comment on the comments, rail at the sea for leaving the starfish on the beach, the sun for drying them out, all the while building a moat around the starfish making sure none will EVER make it out. But as long as they SAY they care so much about the starfish, it’s all good.

   • Charlie Mas says:
     February 2, 2012 at 8:52 am

     People like you, Donna?

     • Donna S. says:
       February 3, 2012 at 10:31 pm

       Well, actually, no. I’ve always been the type to save as many starfish as I can while trying to make a path for the rest. So I donate my time and some money and my voice to programs that are helping at least some of the kids who need it. I’m not going to stand there blocking the way even if not everyone everywhere can be helped. I’m just one person, I can’t help them all, but I can help SOME, so that’s what I do

       What I hear a lot of people saying is what they DON’T want and what SHOULD happen. They make a lot of noise, type a lot of words. But I don’t hear them saying what can be done NOW that they’re actually DOING, directly helping kids. Maybe I’ve missed that.

       • Charlie Mas says:
         February 6, 2012 at 3:18 pm

         Yeah. I think you missed that.